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| database for zzmalau codename "Chimp"; From groupbuy 9/11/07 | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 29 2007, 11:59 PM (669 Views) | |
| NiceFishHomie | Dec 29 2007, 11:59 PM Post #1 |
15" 3x Champions
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Just making a database for this groupbuy fish code name "Chimp" I will be adding more pictures to see further progress if any and to trace the linkage of this fish with my F1 and beyond. Touch down in California around 9/11/07 Was sold as a ZZmalau from malaysia and parents to this fish is unknown This is the shot from malaysia  This is the shot from Long Beach USA and the hand is unknown. J/k...it's vanz hand  This is the shot from my own care when I first got him   3 and 1/2 months later, I added my f1 zz breed female. Wide body gene with short looking gal.  After he successfully breed to my f1 chimpanzzee line, he lost his kok and then went through a recovery stage The next few pix are of him recently around xmas of 2007      This same female that once paired up with her own brother of my f1 zz line. They produces some ugly frys with 1 dot in the middle of the body.  Now she paired with with Chimp to produce something we'll just have to wait to see what she can throw out with an added gene from malaysia.  chimpanzzee line - 2 part zz and 1 part monkey they are growing up so fast but potential is still unknown. Around 200 pieces coming from a small female  So far, the bigger ones are flowerless which will turn out to be ugly but there are plenty of double row and dark lined looking frys. Only time will tell if they will keep it or lose it. I just hope some zzmalau line expresses in these chimpanzzee for the line from the mother is ugly.   Chimpanzzee Grandma from the mother side is ugly  however, the grandma's sister is pretty  this is chimpanzzee's uncle aka the brother of their mom. He and a few other pieces of my f1 zz have double row so I'm expecting some double row for these chimpanzzee line. Only expecting but not yet proven.  Well that's the family tree and I'm making this thread to see who's who has who's gene and where did such genes come from. I even have pictures of chimpanzee's cousin, my f2 zz line aka chimpanzzee's aunt and uncle cross offsprings (f2) but most of them ended up looking ugly as well.  With the new addition of the zzmalau line from malaysia, I'm planning to introduce a good looking gene into a not so good looking line. We'll see how it'll go as they will grow up and produces frys of their own. More updates later. |
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| dhgh | Dec 30 2007, 10:22 PM Post #2 |
15" 3x Champions
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I like how you document you breeding. I enjoy reading it. smiliee thanks for the share bro NFH. thumbs up |
| Team R Us - FlowerhornRus.com | |
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| NiceFishHomie | Dec 31 2007, 01:22 AM Post #3 |
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15" 3x Champions
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yeah..it's the little things we can do to keep updates with the hobby. it is like following a sport like baseball or football. Some do it through memory while other trade sporting cards to keep track of stats. I'm doing it cuz my fishes deserve that much. If only they can speak to us. It is like a family tree. Do we even know ours? How far back can we trace our linkage? If no one does it, it will be a lost cause for many great fh stories are basing it on our own memories but if we leave the hobby or worst yet, die off without sharing, that's a lost of information. |
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| chanceenfate | Dec 31 2007, 02:48 AM Post #4 |
6" Juvies
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thanks for the share NFH its a beautiful thing we(newbies) will have our share of these when we mature and decide to breed our own FH thumbs up hope you will continue doing this.. noobs like me will be of much interest in this one.. it's simply amazing wow |
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.
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| petah | Dec 31 2007, 03:43 AM Post #5 |
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15" 3x Champions
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Nice.. looks like u got the whole family almost... its a beautiful thing |
| Team R'US | |
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| Bigg Dogg | Dec 31 2007, 05:23 AM Post #6 |
FLOWERHORN'R'US
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cool stories bro. nfh bravo congrats on the frys thumbs up |
FLOWERHORNRUS.COM Powered by AMAZONE & PROBETTA Pellets | |
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| NiceFishHomie | Jan 2 2008, 12:54 AM Post #7 |
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15" 3x Champions
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 brothers. newsflash. My f2zz batch is 2 combined f1zz batches in one bro and sis breeding f1zz(male) x f1zz(female) batch 1 and bro and sis breeding f1zz(different male) x f1zz(chimpanzzee's mom) so that means my f1 chimpanzee's frys and some of my f2zz are half siblings inbreeding causes a big mess with giving them proper family names but once these f1 chimp and f2zz frys grow up to mate with each other, it'll be even uglier to give them a proper name. I want to make a note of that for future references and I figured out that if one does not updates as one gets further information, one can easily forget thus why I'm updating as I play the hobby to its fullest. |
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| NiceFishHomie | Feb 18 2008, 04:46 AM Post #8 |
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15" 3x Champions
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the father of the chimpanzee seems to lost his pearls and is really hard for me to get it back. I'm going to try the vanz way by adding vege meals and heavily dosage of spirulina chips since spirula is a form of seaweed? Next update of the father, I'm hoping to get just a dash of pearls. I think the head is about the biggest it'll grow so I have stopped with the chingmix feed and I'm saving the headbooster chingmix old formula for other fish who is going through puberty growth instead. The fflowers are also fading but there's a cure though. I've seen it gotten darker on certain days or shall I say, better water quality but when the water sux, it sure shows as a result though.  the chimpanzzees are growing up and I think I have only a dozen or so full row pieces. The rest are half row and I kept a few 1 dot just to do some experiement with them. I started with 200 so then I culled and now I have 100 left. I also notice having a few pieces that are clear or see through their body and you can notice their red intestinal. I think these are the fading ones or the perhaps the flowerless kind. I kept those just to observe more for a better understanding.  I know they are skinny now but that is only because I have not isolated the good ones for a power feeding method. I need another culling job and heavily power feeding for a better body proportion. With getting a piece that will give me a kok like the father, I'm hoping to just catch one for my eyes are not seeing any at all right now. They are so fast so the best ones are so hard to catch on camera.  |
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| NiceFishHomie | Feb 18 2008, 04:54 AM Post #9 |
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15" 3x Champions
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 the more I cull, the better the pictures will be I suppose |
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| Paintsn | Feb 19 2008, 02:37 AM Post #10 |
>>>NeWbIe 4LiFe<<<
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awesome update.. youdaman you sure talks like a pro to me bro.. i wish i could be as good as you  i do love your lines of stories here.. keep it up.. true Fh hobbyist to the FULLEST wow bravo its a beautiful thing i love the head of the Father in luv |
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| NiceFishHomie | Feb 20 2008, 04:21 AM Post #11 |
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15" 3x Champions
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thanks vanz...just doing my part for a self education here. Still and forever in the learning process I've noticed something though. You know how other breeders say that you can make a masterpiece if you know how to isolate certain genes to your desire? Well the female has breed with another ZZ before and with that batch, a whole bunch of 1 dot looking fish and with zz, a key element to be notice is that big flower on top of the eye.  so to get rid of that dot, you add the monkey gene into it and not only that, I also noticed that these chimpanzzee have a much shorter face. My f1 and f2 zz all have long dog looking face. So my guess is when these chimpanzzee grows up to be breeding quality, I'll add some pearls and more kok power to them. Or perhaps, add more monkey to them. If I keep on doing this, I'll end up with more monkey genes in them than zz so does that mean that the zz traits will now be recessive? I also have my very first kamfa monkey batch with the Golden monkey from the first Group buy and the female is a blood parrot. Take that and combine it with these chimpanzzee for an unknown explosion. (zzxzzmalau) x (gmxbp) = we'll have to wait and see but this is a documentary so I'll call the shots now. Hypothesis is flowerless and light colored looking kamfa with worm pearls. |
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| big kok | Feb 20 2008, 05:16 PM Post #12 |
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Zygotes
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bravo on the documentary and, good luck with your flowerhorn frys its a beautiful thing. |
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| petah | Feb 21 2008, 08:11 PM Post #13 |
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15" 3x Champions
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cool |
| Team R'US | |
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| NiceFishHomie | Feb 26 2008, 12:29 AM Post #14 |
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15" 3x Champions
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in this 1st batch, the female is my own self breed so I know where her line is coming from. She has frys of her own before so if the frys of these chimpanzzee batch turns formiliar then I know it came from her side of the family however, what I noticed in this batch is 3 distinctive groups of frys. She is a zz by nature so I have seen her throwing out some black body and black fins, tails with spots looking frys. With the introduction of the malau line, it was observed that she also throws out these dark but tiny looking frys as well. It came from her side of the family. What is being noted here is what came from the malau side of the family as full row and pearls. She never throw out a full row ever before but then again, that is only because she breed with her own siblings I also noted a ghostly looking fry with dark black eyes and not you typical red eyes at all. I only have 5 pieces of these clear looking frys that their belly and intestine is red. They remind me of them guppy or mosquitoe fish that you catch at your local creek. If anybody have info on this then feel free to teach us. This is my first time seeing this and I think it's an albino gene of some sort. I am saving these "albino" to grow out to get a better understanding on this.  here, you can see 3 normal looking and an albino in the blackground  here is a pix of one that has a flower shape of a heart.  |
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| cktanPenang | Feb 26 2008, 08:29 AM Post #15 |
10" Masterpieces
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Nice frys its a beautiful thing Thanks for sharing your valuable info and pics. thumbs up smiliee Regards, Tan |
| Love Your Family and Being Good To Your Friend | |
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| Valentine | Feb 26 2008, 09:31 AM Post #16 |
5" Juvies
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bravo I like seeing these processes of breeding and raising. It's exciting! |
| No Pain, No Gain. | |
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| Simon | Feb 26 2008, 04:43 PM Post #17 |
5" Juvies
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Thanks for sharing all the breeding updates NFH wow We need to keep an open mind here and realize that there are many factors that come into play when we breed FHs. Often, it is not a simple dominant and recessive thing. There is partial inheritance, and also X and maybe Y linked traits as well. Many of the features that breeders are trying to set are, I believe, multi-allelic traits so breeding two parents with pearling on the kok will not necessarily give you any fry with pearling on the kok. From my own personal experience, I know that each batch of fry are different. You can cross two ZZ and get 100% non pearly grey bodied fish and breed them again and get some super pearly fry, one super water kokster and only a few non pearly grey bodied fish. You can breed these same two ZZs again for the third time and then even get a differnt ratio of fish and it may even throw a few fading fish as well. When doing simple F1 crosses, you may have to cross with a certain male/female several time and then cross with another male/female several times just to have a somewhat better guess as to what traits the parent in question might pass on to its offspring. For my Shinto Dragon line, I crossed my male with the same female 3 times and then crossed my same male with another female 3 times to see what he passes on and to select my breeders to inbreed back to the original parent. Almost every batch gave me something different untill I started inbreeding. Keep up your diligence and you will be rewarded but you should always try to use the best and highest quality parents you can afford to start off your breeding projects. If you live in or around the San Diego/LA area, I can let you borrow one of my males or females for free, most my fish are inbred with less than 5% deformities in my established lines. Just shoot me a pm if you are interested. Simon |
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| chanceenfate | Feb 26 2008, 09:15 PM Post #18 |
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6" Juvies
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very nice documentation bro bravo youdaman I enjoyed reading every single word its a beautiful thing good luck with the experiments |
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There are only 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.
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| NiceFishHomie | Feb 27 2008, 04:28 AM Post #19 |
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15" 3x Champions
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thanks guys and it is fun to do such a thing. You guys should do the same and keep everything organized in one post thread. simon for such great words of wisdom. You have been there before and yes, I know and heard of your breeding projects of the past and I have to say that any given informations will be useful for the next person. Sometime I feel that there are people out there who do know but they're not willing to share these info and I do understand their own marketing strategy as a breeder and I'm respecting it. A man gotta learn somehow and even if I have these hands on experiences and my studying (for fun) is all wrong, it is still my own experiences into this because no one gave me an easy answer so I don't have to do this. LOL |
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| Flowerhornrus | Feb 27 2008, 04:44 AM Post #20 |
Administrator
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man NFH..your steps are way ahead of me.. im just following also.. thumbs up keep up the good data.. youdaman |
  It takes 36 muscles to make a FROWN...  But it ONLY takes ONE FISH to make a Smile!!! 
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| NiceFishHomie | Mar 5 2008, 04:45 PM Post #21 |
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15" 3x Champions
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I'm adding this fish to the database because he/she is the same batch siblings of the mother. She's my f1 aka, my first batch ever that produces a lot of double row and dragon tears but she is the only one with what appears to be a shortbody. She had a body from fry that is so distorted that you can easily pick her out of a bunch of frys. I guess shortbody is made out of a freak of nature. I saw her tube dropped once but then I gave her away. The new owner said she never laid eggs under his care. She has a distinct female body but what's sup with the kok? She has dark dorsal fins marking but she has double row so she could be a he with the dorsal fins exception to the rules. I just wish I know or perhaps, give her a female bp to test out with. Female to male, I don't know but good if I know so I can isolate and breed for that shortbody gene to study more about it. Will it pass? Will it be a hidden gene? who knows 
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| NiceFishHomie | Mar 9 2008, 12:37 PM Post #22 |
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15" 3x Champions
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it looks like she is dropping her tube while being house next to my kamfa monkey the guy that I got the fish back wants her back after I have confirmed for him that it's a female. Guess I will not be seeing this fish for a long time or if ever. I wish he can just let me try to breed her for more understanding into this short body gene. How oddly done how I am able to drop tube under my care. Must be the water 
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| NiceFishHomie | Apr 25 2008, 05:30 PM Post #23 |
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15" 3x Champions
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here is an update on my first round draft pick out of my chimpanzee fry. Oh right, he needs a code name for identification purposes. I'll call him 3rd rock (from the sun). This guy (not sure gender) is the 3rd biggest fry out of the batch. He is also the one who body contortion is not elongated like the rest. The long body comes from the female because she's just an f1 zz coming from a zzxzz combination. The wide body from the father is coming from the malau line.    notice how he has a dragon tears, the trait coming from the mother side for most of her bros and sis have dragon tears. Notice that big tail, one that I'm hoping that he will keep while growing up comes from the father side. Colors are starting to show and I'm just hoping that the kok will continue to develop.  how will he develop from now on, that I do not know but I'm doing what I can as I'm gradually learning more about these fh. I also have females coming along too. for the record, it takes about 4 months for me before any sign of dark spots on dorsal fins to half conclude that it's a female. So the general answers from fry is about 3-1/2 months before you can see any dark spots on them female dorsal or maybe I'm robbing them of their nutrients to show black on dorsal fin so I dunno. Also note for the record that my 2 fastest growing frys turns out to be both female with dark patches around dorsal. I also remember someone posted up that most of his faster growing frys ended up being females as well. Maybe we are onto something here. Maybe it is not wise to cull them slower grower afterall for they might ended up being a male Masterpiece down the line. I have to say that the faster growing frys in a batch is also known as the most greedy when it is feeding time. A male can be a faster grower too if it is a greedy eater like taking in 5 pellets at a time before chewing. More pix and update coming soon when I get them updated pix of these female. I'm more interested in catching females at this point and even if she does not show traits of being a high grade females, I just want to see what hidden genes she can throw out. Here is a picture of her when she was only 2 months old. She is the one using for the experiment with human vitamins and she just blew up and grew faster than every other frys that I have. Notice the 3 other frys (her siblings) in that shared tank and the size comparison ratio. With human vitamins in her system, she plumped up to what looks like a 3-1 ratio.  These females are now off chingmix diet for females do not need that kok design and I don't want to waste them head boosting power over females. LOL |
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| lilrudy | Apr 25 2008, 05:42 PM Post #24 |
10" Masterpieces
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NFH,Hey your my homie so I never wanna talk bad about your fish,but judging by your pics,your doin sumthing wrong with the feeding.All your fish lost their pearls and colors look powdery like primer paint.Do you notice that? What are you feeding them? Are you only feeding them one type of pellet like only ching mix or only amazone,and shrimps? If you are,then thats not good.If your curious,PM me and I'll give you a list of better foods.Dont get me wrong,those popular food are good and do work but you gotta mix it up,you cant feed them only one type of pellet as a staple. |
Feeding guide!
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| NiceFishHomie | Apr 25 2008, 06:07 PM Post #25 |
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15" 3x Champions
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thanks lilrudy for noticing it. When it comes to fh, I'm still not the type that is so hardcore on looks. If the fish have potential to go the distance then sure but if not, low grade food should keep them alive. LOL I know I'm not that great with fh fish keeping thus why I don't own any super masterpiece quality kind. I'm a bunk fish expert or shall you say in car terms, I like my beater. I only have amazon, bio gold +, koi food plain and koi food colorful kind. Dry shrimps in that circular container, smuggled dried up shrimps coming straight out of vietnam with intention for human consumption, chingmix sp50 headboaster...and that's about it. Now which fish gets what is bias by me. The good foods are being fed to fish that "I THINK" have potential and bunk fish eats koi food. Them frys of mine eats up chingmix morning, dry shrimp later in the day, amazon later and then dried up brine shrimp intended for my bettas later on then before bed, I hit up some more chingmix. You can say that I'm trying to boost up the kok first before body building to see any potential out of these frys but doing so is like feeding kids adult food. Totally wrong method but I need to know now who is going to make it and who isn't. I don't want to waste good feed on bunk fish ya know? They are still too small to chunk on them bio gold but I'm starting to feed them bio gold for body building once I crush them up. Too lazy on my part to do so. LOL I don't know about the pearl part but maybe it is the gene. My f2 generation, low pearl count. This batch right here, only 1 fish has half a body full of pearls and all the rest without any pearls. Maybe I have discover the formula for a non pearl type of fh but too bad the mainstream fh industry does not see the beauty in a pearless fish. LOL My fake rt orange kamfa grew pearls by giving them sushi seaweed wrapper. Yeah, it's that crazy but these frys will not touch them seaweed at all. Water changing should be ideal like everyone else. Daily 20% with siphoning rocks on every weekend to keep that PH level above 7.0 Yikes, I do think I need help with raising fh afterall. We want changes in our fish but I'm not trying different methods to get these changes thus why my fishes are usually dull. I'll shoot you a pm for help. |
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