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Strains of Flowerhorns & more...; Details of each...
Topic Started: Feb 3 2008, 07:20 AM (10,361 Views)
Wildimage
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GM - USUAL TRAITS: = Golden monkey which is also called...kamalau which is Cantonese dialect meaning: kam= gold and malau=monkey.

The Classic Strain: GM
This refers to the variety of Lo-Han in which the body is green, pale, metallic, gray, or other relatively pure hue. Early specimens of this strain almost always had white around the eyes ( rarely red), because this was a very early Lo-Han variety, it is generally known as the Classic Strain.

Gold Flower Strain:
This strain was derived from efforts to improve the Classic Strain. While it's head, snout, and fins are similar to those of the Classic Strain, it's colors are more diverse, and it is more offten multi-colored. It commonly has a red ring around the eyes, and there are many crimson dots on it's flanks. A few eagerly-sought specimens are entirely covered with dense crimson dots. Then some large body, little spotting or red dots, a protruding head, a relatively short snout, and a powerful fan-shaped tail, which was countless improvments. Among the improved types that have been developed, the one most known as the " Golden Monkey" is the most typical.
Next came the actual Flowerhorn Strain, then Pearl Strain, and Unspotted Strain ( or free marking starin), and so on and so on.

"This is to say GM too were derived from the great Louhan. so from the great Louhan, you got Mermaid company which is the Mermaid Kamfa or Kamfa strain & also the Golden Monkey strain. that is why Kamfa & GM body & finnages does look similar like wider & thicker body & closer finnage (wrap tail) and a stronger tail."


EYE COLOR: Red.
COLOR: Dont have all that brightness of color when young, but has lots of pearls, colors are not dull as most Kamfas, different pearlings that are bigger and thicker than ZZ and not to mention the pearlings on the head do spread.
BODY SHAPE: Body is stocky, broadness wider & thicker.
FINS: Fin are not droopy, finnages does look similar to a Kamfa and a stronger.
TAIL: Tail flatter, fat tail, similar to a Kamfa, wrap tail and a stronger tail (unlike most ZZ got weaker/dropping tail), big tail bone.
FLOWERLINE: Usually have a flower near the beginning of tail, and do not have a flower on the head.
KOK: Depending on the genes.
FACE FEATURE: Short mouth, face is shorter than a ZZ, monkey face, fat cheeks.
GMs ARE A MIX OF: Have no ZZ blood in them.
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES: Pearls are more spreads in the new GM.
UN-USUAL TRAITS & EXCEPTIONS:
LOW GRADE TRAITS IN GM’s: Face should not be pointy like most ZZ, body should not be long, fin should not be droopy and not traily as a ZZ, lacking pearls... GM old classic have great mouth shape though some modern style GM have mouth problem developing.


*******

Kamfa - Also known as Jin Hua; KamFa also in Cantonese meaning: Kam = gold and Fa = flower (most original Kamfa were gold in color); and JingHua in Mandarin meaning: Jing = gold and Hua= flower.]

Eye Color: White or even yellow, blue hazel, opal eyes and black, sometimes red. They are hollow/sunken.

Color: Varies, spots on the body of gold color.

Body Shape: Body are thick not thin, rectangular and not taper toward tail bone.

Fins: Wrap fins, the end of the fin tip are short. The dorsal fin and anal fin of the Kamfa wrap around the caudal fin and they look like one whole fin.

Tail: Big wide fan tail. When older they do not have a droopy caudal tail like a ZZ.

Flowerline: Some have & some do not.

Kok: Huge water kok, rises higher than the ZZ.

Face Feature: The mouth, lips are balance, smooth and circular.

Breeding: Kamfa are normally made by crossing King Kong Parrot with a ZZ. Only a small percentage (around 5%) of a batch will develop all Kamfa characteristics. Same as KKP's, most male Kamfa are sterile.

Distinguishing Features: Huge water kok and beautiful finnage.

Unusual Traits & Exceptions:

Low Grade Traits in Kamfa: A pointy face, no wrap fins, end of fins are long, droopy tail, small tail, bulgy eyes, parrot nose or small gill plate.

Kamfa Video Samples:





Modern Kamfa - Breeders always experiment with new crosses and several Kamfa lines have developed, mostly from crossing Kamfa females with ZZ, Kamalau, and previously untried true species. Most known today are those called King Kamfa; a variety made very popular by breeders in Vietnam. KK differ from traditional Kamfa in having a strong double flower with a network of thick light colored wormy pearling in the upper 1/2 of fish body. In some prized fish, this area is literally a solid dark color broken by a network of pearls. Sadly only a small % of fish will have all necessary traits to be a KK; however many low grade and unrelated fish are sold as KK because it's a hot trendy name. Other varieties from Vietnam are the Kon & AC Kamfa (no longer available). Also, from Taiwan, we have the Emperor Kamfa developed by Mr. Chen (AKA Rarefish).

King Kamfa Video Samples:






Emperor Kamfa Video Samples:
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*******

ZZ - USUAL TRAITS:

EYE COLOR: Red, outstanding/bulge out.
COLOR: Varies, Red Dragon & Blue Dragon…
BODY SHAPE: Egg shaped.
FINS: Long and stranded. The dorsal fin and anal fin of a ZZ would usually go upward and downward. The caudal fin of the ZZ is usually smaller also.
TAIL: Rounded or stranded. The bigger & older ZZ, it would have a droopy caudal tail.
FLOWERLINE: Can be single, double and even triple. On the side of the forehead/kok, the ZZ has more conspicuous/easily seen black mark/flowers than the Kamfa.
KOK: Varies, depending on the genes of the blood line.
FACE FEATURE: The lower lips of the ZZ is sticking/protruding out and the upper lips is shorter.
ZZ'S ARE A MIX OF:
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES: Brilliant colors and pearls.
UN-USUAL TRAITS & EXCEPTIONS:
LOW GRADE TRAITS IN ZZ'S: Long body, poor color, flowerline not straight, very pointy face, have under bite & tissue on upper lip many time not flush (look like cleft lip).

Modern ZZ - Also known as "Pearly" these are crosses among strains including ZZ bloodlines. A good example is the Tan King; a cross between KK and ZZ developed by Mr. Tan in Vietnam. Tan King's show a mix of traits; but the best fish display more KK characteristics with large wormy pearls and less tapered body. ZZ traits can be detected in the semi-tapering body, semi-inset eyes, dorsal/anal fins with long trailers and a more rounded tail.

Tan King Video Samples:




*******

JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC USUAL TRAITS:

***Read that they haven't seen true JK for years. Lost are the chili red glow in the dark yellow JK of yesteryear. Nowadays you can find descendants of JK crosses. Mostly golden base with pink
Read is a lost strain of which no true JG or JK has been around since 2003. After that crosses or copy-cats, the intense beauty of the first generations of JG or JK and what followed thereafter. Some say they are long gone... hopefully one day, JK will be revived. New versions, instead of chili blood red & lemon yellow the newer Thai Gold Base/JK tend to be paler or orange & pink. Each newer generation has new name.
Some quotes from:
http://flowerhornrusforum.com/topic/8239871/1/
And some quotes from Vanz***



EYE COLOR: A true JK will have albino eyes with red eye ball.
COLOR: Yellow, golden with usually half red, or all yellow.
BODY SHAPE: More stocky and bulk, body are more tall than long.
FINS: Fins more of kamfa.. but sometime has trails of a zz ... so almost in between
TAIL: Tails are more of kamfa.. but sometime has trails of a zz ... so almost in between. The tail is either yellowish red or yellow.
FLOWERLINE: Flowerline.. they dont have...i dont remember seeing any with flowerline.
KOK: Has percentages of hard kok.. very rare to have water head.. or huge kok. Some say, 95% of JK are kokless, 4% with hard kok & 1% small kok.
FACE FEATURE: Kamfa are more smiley.. zz seem like its bout to peck you on they should be more of short and stubby.. almost like having parrot mouth features.. but some could have pointy mouth but dont think as pointy as some zz.. some reminds me of a sour face type lip.. while the cheek.. and gm having underbite that looks like its pouting while having an angry face.
JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC ARE A MIX OF: ?? Some say, JK was created by selected/inbreeding of trimac x trimac. Not a flowerhorn x devil, at lest the 4th generation onwards could only be considered as a successful JK.
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES: They grow super fast.
UN-USUAL TRAITS & EXCEPTIONS:
LOW GRADE TRAITS IN JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC'S:



***Information given by Jimm***

EYE COLOR: Red
COLOR: Mostly red based, some are yellow based
BODY SHAPE: Mostly round , others are kite/diamond-like shape
FINS: Same as with zz
TAIL: Same as with zz, rarely a wraptail
FLOWERLINE: Same as with zz: straight, double plums or just a few
KOK: Mostly have kok proportion to the body size
FACE FEATURE: Same as with zz
BONSIA'S ARE A MIX OF: "Same blood" ....or sibling breeding
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES: the pearls on the tail area forms a curve, & meets each other...
UN-USUAL TRAITS & EXCEPTIONS: None
LOW GRADE TRAITS IN BONSIA'S: Grows slowly


FORTUNE, FF - USUAL TRAITS:
Considered Hybrids or Crossbreeds.


***Information given by lilrudy***

Fortune Fish(FF) is a strain by the breeder RareFish (Mr.Chen,I think is his name).It is believed to be a cross between Texas/Carpinte and some kind of Vieja thus falling under the category of Kamfa.FF is known for its tall but full/stalky body,bright Red front,water kok (like Vieja Red Synphilum) and thick plate pearl back end like Texas.A small percentage of FF fade revieling bright intense orange with thick white plate pearls much like SRT.

EYE COLOR: White
COLOR: Red front/metalic
BODY SHAPE:Tall like texas/carointe yet tubular like Vieja.
FINS: Big,stiff (like midas)
TAIL: Big,stiff (like midas)
FLOWERLINE: Poorly defined(not a soutafter trait in this strain)
KOK: Can show a variety of types/sizes from hard to water.Blooms later as it matures.
FACE FEATURE: Short
FORTUNE ARE A MIX OF: SECRET.Believed to beTexas/Carpinte x Vieja
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES: Red front and metalic back end.
UN-USUAL TRAITS & EXCEPTIONS:
LOW GRADE TRAITS IN FORTUNE: Small scatered pearls,undefined kok.



TEXAS, RT, SRT - USUAL TRAITS:
The Pearls is what makes a Red Texas unique and popular from other hybrids. Considered Hybrids or Crossbreeds.


EYE COLOR: Yellow, Yellow / Orange, not bulgy.
BODY SHAPE: Red Texas is considered as huge structure fish. The mature Red Texas can have size up to 30 CMs. in length.
A nice Red Texas should have wide and thick body with straight fin which is perfectly match with the body.
COLOR: The most popular and expensive is Red. The next popular is Orangy-red.
Not all Red Texas are red, and some might not even fade. There are Red Texas in Red, Orangy-red, Yellow, and Pink. They could have these colors when they are faded. Red Flesh this has major genetic from mother so it has more chance in changing color. However, not every red flesh can change color into the red or orangey-red which is very popular. After the peel off period, the color may show in yellow or pinkish-white...
Green Flesh This group receives more genetic from father. It will have nice pearl but its skins have none or less chance to peel off so it will not come out red. This color is not popular.
FINS: Straight fins that perfectly match the body.
TAIL:
FLOWERLINE: Good quality doesn’t have flowerline for they are faded or peeled.
KOK: Not many Texas develop a kok, but some do.
FACE FEATURE:
TEXAS ARE A MIX OF: Have no ZZ blood in them, green or blue Texas and crossing it with a female such as Parrot, King-Kong, Mammon, Darmo, Flamingo, RED Devil, Redshock or Redsyn.
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES: There are several types of pearls..
1. Delicate Pearl
2. Small Pearl
3. Big Pearl
4. Brain Pattern Pearl
UN-USUAL TRAITS & EXCEPTIONS:
LOW GRADE TRAITS IN TEXAS: Dull and not harmonial structured, long mouth ( snout), big bulgy eyes, lack of colors and pearls, not pleasing to look at.. skinny/ long in body, have a flowerline that has not peeled.

I read...THE FLOWERHORN PEARL MELON, became popular in the early 80's, and disappeared shortly after.

Like many strains, once the original breeder ones dies...the strain also dies...



.
Edited by Mentat, Sep 24 2011, 07:28 AM.
-Lynda ;)

"Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep"

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Bastardfish
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cheers nice looks like you put some time into that good for people to referance
you seem to have come a long way Lynda
maybe one day we shall see a breed from you too? Nice post



How's your fish's Kung Fu?





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tomster
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great info on here. bravo bravo
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Wildimage
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Bastardfish
Feb 6 2008, 12:21 AM
cheers nice looks like you put some time into that good for people to referance
you seem to have come a long way Lynda
maybe one day we shall see a breed from you too? Nice post

thank you Gord! smiliee, i do want to breed it may not be right away but i want to so bad...just need more tanks...and just bought a 90g...got to save some more for another tank and a female... Yeah i guess i have come a long way, but its all thanks to you all...even a simple thing, like adding carbon to filters not good after 3 / 4 weeks...and better off not even using...just simple thing like this i cherish and pass along.

Just last night was talking to my guy friend who got my into fish keeping...and he didnt know about the carbon...anyhow, what i learn here i share, i did my share of asking questions to learn, and will keep on asking hehehe

***tomster*** thank you

Now just have 2 more strains to fill out, and i need help! lol...mamamia i feel like im in school doing a project and im stuck! hahaha

pleaseonknee Family, teach me some more and help me fill in the 2 last strains, and please, check all the info posted already to make sure it is correct for a base knowledge :)
-Lynda ;)

"Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep"

***TEAM R US***

***UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE***


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cktanPenang
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thank you very much for the above info Lynda, you've done a great job....i really appreciated. you're the best smiliee
Love Your Family and Being Good To Your Friend
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Wildimage
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cktanPenang
Feb 8 2008, 10:28 AM
thank you very much for the above info Lynda, you've done a great job....i really appreciated. you're the best smiliee

Awww thanks!!!
smiliee thank you you're the best
-Lynda ;)

"Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep"

***TEAM R US***

***UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE***


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wow cool nice to know this database is already complete Lynda its a beautiful thing

Just in time smiliee

thanks for all who helped and more power to us daance
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary and those who don't.

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Wildimage
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If any have info to give me to add for:


FORTUNE, FF - USUAL TRAITS:
Considered Hybrids or Crossbreeds.

EYE COLOR:
COLOR:
BODY SHAPE:
FINS:
TAIL:
FLOWERLINE:
KOK:
FACE FEATURE:
FORTUNE ARE A MIX OF:
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES:
UN-USUAL TRAITS & EXCEPTIONS:
LOW GRADE TRAITS IN FORTUNE:

And for:
JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC USUAL TRAITS:

EYE COLOR:
COLOR:
BODY SHAPE:
FINS:
TAIL:
FLOWERLINE:
KOK:
FACE FEATURE:
JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC ARE A MIX OF:
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES:
UN-USUAL TRAITS & EXCEPTIONS:
LOW GRADE TRAITS IN JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC'S:

Help me out smiliee

thank you
-Lynda ;)

"Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep"

***TEAM R US***

***UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE***


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jimms
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nice info lynda! =)
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Wildimage
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jimms
Mar 29 2008, 10:12 AM
nice info lynda! =)

Thanks! Yeah, i need to work on this...one of these days i will finish it smiliee
-Lynda ;)

"Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep"

***TEAM R US***

***UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE***


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t.bone
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looks like u been doing ur hw lynda. great work! definitely holding it down for canada
"i wasn't down with the mainstream.....or should i say THEIR team." - Non Prophets
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lilrudy
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Here you go.Someone please correct me if I have any wrong information on here.Thanks



FORTUNE, FF - USUAL TRAITS:
Considered Hybrids or Crossbreeds.

Fortune Fish(FF) is a strain by the breeder RareFish (Mr.Chen,I think is his name).It is believed to be a cross between Texas/Carpinte and some kind of Vieja thus falling under the category of Kamfa.FF is known for its tall but full/stalky body,bright Red front,water kok (like Vieja Red Synphilum) and thick plate pearl back end like Texas.A small percentage of FF fade revieling bright intense orange with thick white plate pearls much like SRT.

EYE COLOR:white
COLOR:Red front/metalic
BODY SHAPE:Tall like texas/carointe yet tubular like Vieja.
FINS:Big,stiff (like midas)
TAIL:Big,stiff (like midas)
FLOWERLINE:poorly defined(not a soutafter trait in this strain)
KOK:Can show a variety of types/sizes from hard to water.Blooms later as it matures.
FACE FEATURE:short
FORTUNE ARE A MIX OF:SECRET.Believed to beTexas/Carpinte x Vieja
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES:Red front and metalic back end.
UN-USUAL TRAITS & EXCEPTIONS:
LOW GRADE TRAITS IN FORTUNE:Small scatered pearls,undefined kok.
Feeding guide!

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Wildimage
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daance thank you you're the best Its greatly appreciated!!! smiliee
-Lynda ;)

"Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep"

***TEAM R US***

***UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE***


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The secret of health for both mind and body, is not to mourn for the past, worry about the future, or anticipate troubles, but to live in the present moment wisely and earnestly. Live each moment stress free & in harmony ...
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lilrudy
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wildimage
Mar 29 2008, 02:15 PM
daance thank you you're the best Its greatly appreciated!!! smiliee

You made me blush in luv .... laughin rollin
Feeding guide!

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Wildimage
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Blush some more ***T H A N K Y O U*** cool guy laughin rollin
-Lynda ;)

"Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep"

***TEAM R US***

***UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE***


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The secret of health for both mind and body, is not to mourn for the past, worry about the future, or anticipate troubles, but to live in the present moment wisely and earnestly. Live each moment stress free & in harmony ...
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Wildimage
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And for:

JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC USUAL TRAITS:

EYE COLOR:
COLOR:
BODY SHAPE:
FINS:
TAIL:
FLOWERLINE:
KOK:
FACE FEATURE:
JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC ARE A MIX OF:
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES:
UN-USUAL TRAITS & EXCEPTIONS:
LOW GRADE TRAITS IN JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC'S:
-Lynda ;)

"Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep"

***TEAM R US***

***UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE***


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lilrudy
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wildimage
Mar 31 2008, 12:40 AM
And for:

JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC USUAL TRAITS:

EYE COLOR:
COLOR:
BODY SHAPE:
FINS:
TAIL:
FLOWERLINE:
KOK:
FACE FEATURE:
JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC ARE A MIX OF:
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES:
UN-USUAL TRAITS & EXCEPTIONS:
LOW GRADE TRAITS IN JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC'S:

See the thing about JK,now'a'days they are so diverse.No specific traits other then yellow base with red front.

Back then the JK was more defined,like the Eastern Maiden.JK was very GM like jus that it was intense yellow.Now we have so many variations and the older strains died out sadwithtears
And what makes things even more scrmbled is that we have more and more fading ZZ's.Are fading ZZ's considered JK? thinkingscratchingchin

I think we would have to PM a Master who knows the origins of the JK to get better facts.Enlighten us O' great FlowerHorn Gods! hooray ..... laughin rollin
Feeding guide!

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Au Duong Phong
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So if a FH has sunken eyes, what is it? I have a couple with sunken eyes.
Come play Chinese chess with me @ viwawa.com. my user name is Thoai or Troy..
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Wildimage
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lilrudy
Mar 31 2008, 08:46 PM
wildimage
Mar 31 2008, 12:40 AM
And for:

JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC USUAL TRAITS:

EYE COLOR:
COLOR:
BODY SHAPE:
FINS:
TAIL:
FLOWERLINE:
KOK:
FACE FEATURE:
JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC ARE A MIX OF:
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES:
UN-USUAL TRAITS & EXCEPTIONS:
LOW GRADE TRAITS IN JING KANG, GOLDBASE, TRIMAC'S:

See the thing about JK,now'a'days they are so diverse.No specific traits other then yellow base with red front.

Back then the JK was more defined,like the Eastern Maiden.JK was very GM like jus that it was intense yellow.Now we have so many variations and the older strains died out sadwithtears
And what makes things even more scrmbled is that we have more and more fading ZZ's.Are fading ZZ's considered JK? thinkingscratchingchin

I think we would have to PM a Master who knows the origins of the JK to get better facts.Enlighten us O' great FlowerHorn Gods! hooray ..... laughin rollin

Yeah i agree....

***Enlighten us O' great FlowerHorn Gods!*** its a beautiful thing
-Lynda ;)

"Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep"

***TEAM R US***

***UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE***


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lilrudy
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Au Duong Phong
Apr 4 2008, 03:30 PM
So if a FH has sunken eyes, what is it? I have a couple with sunken eyes.

Sunken eyes are associated with Kamfas.They get them from the Vieja genes,a lot of viejas have sunken eye.But a small percentage of other non kamfa FlowerHorn can have this trait also since Flowerhorn do have some kind of vieja in their origin. kinda confusing huh confused ...lol

You might say "well if all flowerhorn come from vieja,then that means all flowerhorn are kamfa"..No,kamfas are considered kamfas when they have strong vieja traits/genes.All flowerhorn other then kamfa,like ZZ,have lost their vieja characteristics because of the crosses with other fish wich is why not all flowerhorn are kamfa duh 2 ...lol

But then agin,flowerhorn that arnt kamfa still have dorman vieja genes that may sumtimes pop up as resesive genes,wich is how every once in a while you'll have a ZZ with sunken eyes i'm lost ..... laughin rollin
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Wildimage
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Interesting, would love to see a ZZ with sunken eyes...any pics?
-Lynda ;)

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wildimage
Apr 22 2008, 05:14 AM
Interesting, would love to see a ZZ with sunken eyes...any pics?
Not a Masterpiece by any means and hard to see from side; but this cute ZZ juvie named "Azul" has sunken eyes. Think Vanz has one ZZ with sunken eyes too. Will try to get a better angle picture after tanks settles (cleaning today).

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Edited by Mentat, Jun 15 2008, 11:29 AM.
In dwelling, live close to the ground. In thinking, keep it simple. In conflict, be fair and generous. In governing, don't control. In work, do what you enjoy. In family life, be completely present. - Tao Te Ching
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Wildimage
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I can see it a bit, looking forward to a different angle thumbs up
-Lynda ;)

"Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep"

***TEAM R US***

***UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE***


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Found thread with Vanz ZZ, can see nice inset eyes on first pics.

http://s7.zetaboards.com/Flowerhornrusforum/topic/109079/1/#new

Samson has inset eyes that also slant a bit giving him an Asian eyes look.

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Edited by Mentat, Jun 16 2008, 11:05 AM.
In dwelling, live close to the ground. In thinking, keep it simple. In conflict, be fair and generous. In governing, don't control. In work, do what you enjoy. In family life, be completely present. - Tao Te Ching
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Wildimage
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Awww yeah i can see it more on Vanz zz...Kewl!!!
-Lynda ;)

"Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep"

***TEAM R US***

***UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE***


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