Lets talk about Water heads, semi water head...

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Lets talk about Water heads, semi water head...; Information & learn :)
Topic Started: Apr 18 2008, 07:56 AM (637 Views)
wildimage	Apr 18 2008, 07:56 AM Post #1
* Bionic Biker Chickyta* Posts: 3,948 Group: Global Moderators/ Team RUS Member #455 Joined: January 31, 2007 Favorite Strain ALL of The ABOVE!!!!!	Bigg Dogg posted these questions and answers were given by Jett: : Hard Head... These are koks that do not change size. They remain steady. The tissue of the kok is hard almost like a part of the skull Semi- Water Head These are the most desired if you would like to compete as the kok is more stable. Water Head... Typical KF head. Soft to touch. will shrink if water parameters change. I want to learn more about this, like how by just looking at the FH you are able to tell??? Like my Skull, i have been taking monthly pics, i see a growth, seems like the kok has become a semi water head, for when he touches the glass, the kok goes in and goes back into place right away... I wonder if it will grow more??? Also, i think his kok was hard before, and now has become soft, so i guess kok can change has they grow right??? Here are some pics of his kok since i got him: November 07 December 07 March 08 April 08 Today April 18th What do you think of mine??? Also i have noticed that under his chin, it has started to come out more than before, hope it keeps on growing out, to even out the body...
	-Lynda ;) "Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep" *TEAM R US* *UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE*


Simon	Apr 18 2008, 08:51 AM Post #2
5" Juvies Posts: 562 Group: Global Advisors Member #349 Joined: January 15, 2007	Hey Lynda, looks like you have a semi-waterhead. Because semi-waterheads don't have a very thick layer of the expandable tissue in their heads, they often look and feel like hard heads when they first come in. As with most FHs, the expandable tissue will gradually inflate as it becomes accustomed to its new environment and feels more dominant. Of course this all depends on water conditions, food, mental/physical stimulation, ect... It is sometimes difficult to tell the difference between a hard head and a small semi-waterhead (that is deflated) but I tend to find it fairly easy to distinguish between a hard head and water head. Hard heads just look like they have a hard head. If they have small scales showing on their forehead, they look like they have much fewer scales than compared to a waterhead, I'm talking about the total number of scales counted in a straight line from the first dorsal spine to where the snout begins. More often than not however, you won't even really see distinct scales on the foreheads of hard koked fish. Looking at the bodyshape of the fish also helps. If the fish has a long, low body and, kinda torpedo shaped, and there is not much of a slope on the forehead, it may be a hard head. Semi-water heads that are deflated look smooth, round and often slightly convex. Water heads that are deflated look kinda lumpy and often have a deflated double hump effect, looks almost like a less rounded "m" shape, Kamfas with their heads down often look like this. We must also take into consideration the size/age of the fish along with how the fish was raised. If the fish is young, it is hard to determine what type of head it will have, fish that are 4-5 inches are much easier to judge. It is also best to know how the fish was raised, was it given enough food, vitamins, nutrients, water, swimming room, ect... Many factors can stunt a fish and when finally given the proper conditions, it can bloom. I feel this is often the case when a supposed hard head turns into a nice waterhead. Gotta get back to work, lets see what others say, pics will help pump up



wildimage	Apr 18 2008, 09:12 AM Post #3
* Bionic Biker Chickyta* Posts: 3,948 Group: Global Moderators/ Team RUS Member #455 Joined: January 31, 2007 Favorite Strain ALL of The ABOVE!!!!!	OK so a semi-water head, they often look and feel like hard heads when they first come in...so has they grow, and good environment and well fead, it changes. *As with most FHs, the expandable tissue will gradually inflate as it becomes accustomed to its new environment and feels more dominant. Of course this all depends on water conditions, food, mental/physical stimulation, etc* Skull is in a 90g, water change weekly, various food always given, from Alife, Amazone, Dragon Humpy Starlight, Dragon Xtra, Red Forever, Nutrafin Max Spirulina Sticks, Ostrich Heart, Jumbo Blood Woms, Freeze Dried Shrimp, Fresh Shrimp. Put a mirror in for a couple of minutes sometimes for Dominant effects I often go see him make him follow my finger and make him go super fast hehehe...pet his head and body. What else can you do for mental/physical stimulation??? Have a good power head. Good canister filter & 2 airstones running at full speed. And i daily scoop out any stools i see, to make the tank even less dirty, therefore good water conditions. Interested to see pic so i can see this visual so i understand more: *Hard heads just look like they have a hard head. If they have small scales showing on their forehead, they look like they have much fewer scales than compared to a waterhead, I'm talking about the total number of scales counted in a straight line from the first dorsal spine to where the snout begins. More often than not however, you won't even really see distinct scales on the foreheads of hard koked fish.* *Semi-water heads that are deflated look smooth, round and often slightly convex.* Often slightly convex??? Sorry lol im french so some words or saying i dont always get... Yes pics would be awesome, im very visual :) Thanks Simon you're the best
	-Lynda ;) "Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep" *TEAM R US* *UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE*


cktanPenang	Apr 18 2008, 09:28 AM Post #4
10" Masterpieces Posts: 1,051 Group: Members Member #4,829 Joined: October 9, 2007	Hi Lynda, your Skull is looking great. its a beautiful thing I can see a lot of changes from the pics.....nice development thumbs up Learning a lot from the above statement given by bro. Simon and you.....thanks for sharing. you're the best daance Regards, Tan
	Love Your Family and Being Good To Your Friend


wildimage	Apr 18 2008, 09:34 AM Post #5
* Bionic Biker Chickyta* Posts: 3,948 Group: Global Moderators/ Team RUS Member #455 Joined: January 31, 2007 Favorite Strain ALL of The ABOVE!!!!!	Learning & learning is my goal, and i know i shall learn about these faboulus species forever, there is so much to understand and knowledge to obtain in this hobby... And i appreciate all who gives me information, and teaches me, on this wonderful journey of the Flowerhonrs breed in luv
	-Lynda ;) "Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep" *TEAM R US* *UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE*


wildimage	Apr 18 2008, 09:36 AM Post #6
* Bionic Biker Chickyta* Posts: 3,948 Group: Global Moderators/ Team RUS Member #455 Joined: January 31, 2007 Favorite Strain ALL of The ABOVE!!!!!	cktanPenang Apr 18 2008, 11:28 AM Hi Lynda, your Skull is looking great. its a beautiful thing I can see a lot of changes from the pics.....nice development thumbs up Regards, Tan Thanks Tan, i hope for more suprises from Skull :)
	-Lynda ;) "Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep" *TEAM R US* *UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE*


Simon	Apr 19 2008, 01:38 AM Post #7
5" Juvies Posts: 562 Group: Global Advisors Member #349 Joined: January 15, 2007	Hey Lynda, a semi-waterhead looks and feels like a hard head only when its head is deflated. Convex just means it is rounded, kinda like a bald persons head, the opposite would be Concave, which would be like the inside of a rice bowl. You are giving Skull excellent growing conditions, but are you using charcoal in your filters? If you are it can be sucking up lots of the nutrients that a fish normally gets from the water. It can still extract most of the nutrients from the food it eats but you may occasionally want to supplement with vitamins or minerals. I'm only saying this because Skull should be more colorful and his redness should be deeper. I'm just looking at the type of tail he has, his double flowerline and the red patches on his head. Skull can get a better kok but normally these type of fish with the strong second row of flowers and grey body with a complete flowerline have the frontal koks as opposed to the up and out koks of Blue Dragon and Red Dragon type fish. Skull can be considered a Pearl type FH and some of these types do have really big up an out koks but the only way you can find out for sure is Skull has the potential is to throw every technique at him and see what happens. This is the fun part because as you adjust his tank and neighbors, you can see how beautiful these fish truely are when they are defending a territory or in true breeding colors. Since environmentally, it appears you are doing everything right, I would suggest that you get a divider and place a male or female with him. You may first want to try putting a slightly smaller male next to him to stimulate his agression, you should see his colors brighten, kok get slightly larger and agression level increase dramatically, all within about 1 day to 1 week. Again, I can tell he can be pumped up more just by noting what features Skull has and comparing it to similar fish in my memory that are similar. I know he can get more red and the head should get a bit larger too. Because his color is not as red and his pearling is not as intense as I think this type of fish should be, it has to be some other factor. I then noticed that Skull doesn't have a very large rock pile. Any FH living in a large tank with gravel and feeling mentally/physically stimulated should pile up much of his rocks on one side or another of his tank. Skulls gravel is pretty much level throughout. I know you gravel vaccuum just about everyday but after gravel vaccuuming, he should immediately start creating his pile again. Because I didn't see a large pile, it leads me to believe that Skull has lost interest in the Mirror and needs more stimulation from actual fish. I personally feel that females are more powerful stimulators than males but I prefer to build up their testosterone level more gradually by introducing the slightly smaller male first, have the male with him for about 2 weeks and then replace the small male with a healthy Red and pearly female. This should bring out his full colors and pearls and if his head doesn't pop after this, its genetic and he has the frontal kok instead of the up and out kok. sit ups good luck thinkingscratchingchin thinkingscratchingchin



Paintsn	Apr 19 2008, 03:29 AM Post #8
>>>NeWbIe 4LiFe<<< Posts: 4,652 Group: Team RUS Member #2 Joined: June 2, 2006 Favorite Strain Kamfas Residence LoNg BeAcH, CaLi	great improvement here bravo hhmm.. its a close case of a hard and semi-water kok as simon stated.. I think it may or coudl get a lil more puffy or bigger which would make it easier to determine as a semi-water head.. but as of now i would say its in the middle of a hard head and a semi-water head.. smiliee
	http://flowerhornrus.com/ SAD??? is seeing that wrinkled face in the mirror of a NOBODY and knowing that life is given by Borrowed Time, And to the Truth is, Being alive and not knowing how to LIVE... Now that is sad!!! ONE DAY CLOSER TO DEATH!!! So Therefore... My Dream is My Reality and My Reality is My Dream, And If I am in MY Reality, Then I could do So as I pleases AS in My DREAM!!! Paintings In MY MIND by PAINTSN Click Banner


wildimage	Apr 19 2008, 07:38 AM Post #9
* Bionic Biker Chickyta* Posts: 3,948 Group: Global Moderators/ Team RUS Member #455 Joined: January 31, 2007 Favorite Strain ALL of The ABOVE!!!!!	Simon Apr 19 2008, 03:38 AM Hey Lynda, a semi-waterhead looks and feels like a hard head only when its head is deflated. Convex just means it is rounded, kinda like a bald persons head, the opposite would be Concave, which would be like the inside of a rice bowl. You are giving Skull excellent growing conditions, but are you using charcoal in your filters? If you are it can be sucking up lots of the nutrients that a fish normally gets from the water. It can still extract most of the nutrients from the food it eats but you may occasionally want to supplement with vitamins or minerals. I'm only saying this because Skull should be more colorful and his redness should be deeper. I'm just looking at the type of tail he has, his double flowerline and the red patches on his head. Skull can get a better kok but normally these type of fish with the strong second row of flowers and grey body with a complete flowerline have the frontal koks as opposed to the up and out koks of Blue Dragon and Red Dragon type fish. Skull can be considered a Pearl type FH and some of these types do have really big up an out koks but the only way you can find out for sure is Skull has the potential is to throw every technique at him and see what happens. This is the fun part because as you adjust his tank and neighbors, you can see how beautiful these fish truely are when they are defending a territory or in true breeding colors. Since environmentally, it appears you are doing everything right, I would suggest that you get a divider and place a male or female with him. You may first want to try putting a slightly smaller male next to him to stimulate his agression, you should see his colors brighten, kok get slightly larger and agression level increase dramatically, all within about 1 day to 1 week. Again, I can tell he can be pumped up more just by noting what features Skull has and comparing it to similar fish in my memory that are similar. I know he can get more red and the head should get a bit larger too. Because his color is not as red and his pearling is not as intense as I think this type of fish should be, it has to be some other factor. I then noticed that Skull doesn't have a very large rock pile. Any FH living in a large tank with gravel and feeling mentally/physically stimulated should pile up much of his rocks on one side or another of his tank. Skulls gravel is pretty much level throughout. I know you gravel vaccuum just about everyday but after gravel vaccuuming, he should immediately start creating his pile again. Because I didn't see a large pile, it leads me to believe that Skull has lost interest in the Mirror and needs more stimulation from actual fish. I personally feel that females are more powerful stimulators than males but I prefer to build up their testosterone level more gradually by introducing the slightly smaller male first, have the male with him for about 2 weeks and then replace the small male with a healthy Red and pearly female. This should bring out his full colors and pearls and if his head doesn't pop after this, its genetic and he has the frontal kok instead of the up and out kok. sit ups good luck thinkingscratchingchin thinkingscratchingchin I am not using charcoal in my filters, sponge, white fluff, resine, and ceramic rings. Yeah i know about his color, trying to work on this, by giving him Dragon Xtra, Red Forever, live shrimp, ostrich heart, jumbo blood worms. Any other food that helps? His top flowerline, the black plums are not deep dark. *Put a divider and place a male or female with him & a smaller male next to him* Well im suppose to get some frys, from a Canadian members here, Kamfa's, but they still too small at the moment. *Skull doesn't have a very large rock pile* I didnt put much, for he doesnt even bother to dig and play with it at all, but i can give this a try :) *Skull has lost interest in the Mirror* Not realy, everytime i put it in he goes crazy and attacks it lol, i take it out in fear he would dart and hurt himself, since its the only FH i have im careful... *he has the frontal kok instead of the up and out kok* Any picture to show for me to get what you meen?
	-Lynda ;) "Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep" *TEAM R US* *UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE*


wildimage	Apr 19 2008, 07:39 AM Post #10
* Bionic Biker Chickyta* Posts: 3,948 Group: Global Moderators/ Team RUS Member #455 Joined: January 31, 2007 Favorite Strain ALL of The ABOVE!!!!!	Paintsn Apr 19 2008, 05:29 AM great improvement here bravo hhmm.. its a close case of a hard and semi-water kok as simon stated.. I think it may or coudl get a lil more puffy or bigger which would make it easier to determine as a semi-water head.. but as of now i would say its in the middle of a hard head and a semi-water head.. smiliee Ok smiliee
	-Lynda ;) "Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep" *TEAM R US* *UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE*


wildimage	Apr 19 2008, 07:41 AM Post #11
* Bionic Biker Chickyta* Posts: 3,948 Group: Global Moderators/ Team RUS Member #455 Joined: January 31, 2007 Favorite Strain ALL of The ABOVE!!!!!	Does anyone on this forum have any pictures, of water heads, hard heads, semi-water heads, and frontal kok instead of the up and out kok. Would be so appreciated, for i am alot visual, and love to learn & learn its a beautiful thing Kindness regards, -Lynda :)
	-Lynda ;) "Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep" *TEAM R US* *UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE*


wildimage	Apr 21 2008, 01:03 PM Post #12
* Bionic Biker Chickyta* Posts: 3,948 Group: Global Moderators/ Team RUS Member #455 Joined: January 31, 2007 Favorite Strain ALL of The ABOVE!!!!!	Simon, i did a pile of his gravel in one corner on Sunday...but hes not digger, still has not touched it...man i wish he was like Znog, he would dig, move, decorate like crazy, i miss that...no trick huh to make them dig lol??? Smack him silly and order him to dig? lol just joking!!!
	-Lynda ;) "Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep" *TEAM R US* *UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE*


wildimage	Apr 21 2008, 01:08 PM Post #13
* Bionic Biker Chickyta* Posts: 3,948 Group: Global Moderators/ Team RUS Member #455 Joined: January 31, 2007 Favorite Strain ALL of The ABOVE!!!!!	I would say Znog had a hard head...am i correct? And all FH that have big large heads like Vanz Plat (R.I.P) are water-heads...right?
	-Lynda ;) "Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep" *TEAM R US* *UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE*


Simon	Apr 23 2008, 08:44 PM Post #14
5" Juvies Posts: 562 Group: Global Advisors Member #349 Joined: January 15, 2007	Yup, Znog does look like a hard head but he could also have been a semi-waterkok that has not popped yet, its very hard to tell. It is kind of odd that Skull doesn't have much of a rock pile. You don't need a lot of gravel because they should find all the material in their territory and stack it all in one or two corners or sides of the tank. That is why I really think you need to use another male/female to stimulate him. He probably already feels dominant since he still attacks the mirror and the fish in the mirror always runs away. If you have a fish that stays there for several days or weeks, that might make him think another fish might possibly steal his territory or that a female might be interested in breeding sit ups thumbs up



jimms	Apr 24 2008, 08:37 AM Post #15
2" Frys Posts: 207 Group: Members Member #5,605 Joined: November 8, 2007	very nice development there lynda! =)



wildimage	May 4 2008, 04:31 AM Post #16
* Bionic Biker Chickyta* Posts: 3,948 Group: Global Moderators/ Team RUS Member #455 Joined: January 31, 2007 Favorite Strain ALL of The ABOVE!!!!!	Simon Apr 23 2008, 10:44 PM Yup, Znog does look like a hard head but he could also have been a semi-waterkok that has not popped yet, its very hard to tell. It is kind of odd that Skull doesn't have much of a rock pile. You don't need a lot of gravel because they should find all the material in their territory and stack it all in one or two corners or sides of the tank. That is why I really think you need to use another male/female to stimulate him. He probably already feels dominant since he still attacks the mirror and the fish in the mirror always runs away. If you have a fish that stays there for several days or weeks, that might make him think another fish might possibly steal his territory or that a female might be interested in breeding sit ups thumbs up Well first pile of gravel was on left corner, did see some gravel moved, but when i did the last WC i put it else were, seems like it has moved alot, have not seen him move it, so maybe he did or his body brusing the pile, but this time, its more shatered...so i think he picked them up... Thanks for this Tip Simon you're the best smiliee Will do 2 pile next WC and i need more gravel, man went to a LFS to get my female HM Betta metalic blue, was gona get a bag of purple gravel and forgot splat laughin rollin
	-Lynda ;) "Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep" *TEAM R US* *UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE*


wildimage	May 4 2008, 04:31 AM Post #17
* Bionic Biker Chickyta* Posts: 3,948 Group: Global Moderators/ Team RUS Member #455 Joined: January 31, 2007 Favorite Strain ALL of The ABOVE!!!!!	jimms Apr 24 2008, 10:37 AM very nice development there lynda! =) Thanks Jimm smiliee
	-Lynda ;) "Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep" *TEAM R US* *UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE*


lilrudy	May 4 2008, 09:43 PM Post #18
10" Masterpieces Posts: 1,037 Group: Team RUS Member #1,804 Joined: May 22, 2007	The name is basicly determined by the size more then the way it physicly feels to the touch.Beacause even hard kok is a bit mushy when you feel it. Hard Semi water Bubble Helium?... laughin rollin
	Feeding guide!


Paintsn	May 7 2008, 12:32 AM Post #19
>>>NeWbIe 4LiFe<<< Posts: 4,652 Group: Team RUS Member #2 Joined: June 2, 2006 Favorite Strain Kamfas Residence LoNg BeAcH, CaLi	lilrudy May 4 2008, 08:43 PM Helium?... laughin rollin hahahhahahaha.. laughin rollin laughin rollin laughin rollin you got me there bro!!! laughin rollin great info you posted here youdaman I'm sorry to say.. but when i think or see a water head.. i always think and say its like an inflated NUT Sack..ahahha i dont know im sorry but it does look like one but yeah Helium sounds good.. makes you wonder if they did inflated with helium laughin rollin i dont know j/k
	http://flowerhornrus.com/ SAD??? is seeing that wrinkled face in the mirror of a NOBODY and knowing that life is given by Borrowed Time, And to the Truth is, Being alive and not knowing how to LIVE... Now that is sad!!! ONE DAY CLOSER TO DEATH!!! So Therefore... My Dream is My Reality and My Reality is My Dream, And If I am in MY Reality, Then I could do So as I pleases AS in My DREAM!!! Paintings In MY MIND by PAINTSN Click Banner


wildimage	May 7 2008, 02:15 PM Post #20
* Bionic Biker Chickyta* Posts: 3,948 Group: Global Moderators/ Team RUS Member #455 Joined: January 31, 2007 Favorite Strain ALL of The ABOVE!!!!!	Paintsn May 7 2008, 02:32 AM its like an inflated NUT Sack..ahahha laughin rollin laughin rollin your so funny!!! laughin hard Thanks Rudy, great seing the pics...thank you you're the best
	-Lynda ;) "Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep" *TEAM R US* *UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE*


wildimage	May 8 2008, 06:18 PM Post #21
* Bionic Biker Chickyta* Posts: 3,948 Group: Global Moderators/ Team RUS Member #455 Joined: January 31, 2007 Favorite Strain ALL of The ABOVE!!!!!	Simon!!! I saw him pick up the gravel lol man your trick is awesome! Did WC today, did 2 piles this time hehehehe....
	-Lynda ;) "Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep" *TEAM R US* *UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE*


blue_ice�	May 16 2008, 10:04 AM Post #22
team PHILIPPINES Posts: 342 Group: Members Member #824 Joined: March 16, 2007	http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/5194/in...fabubbledk1.jpg this one i think is kalamansi, if im not mistaken. used to be here in pi.



wildimage	Aug 25 2008, 08:01 AM Post #23
* Bionic Biker Chickyta* Posts: 3,948 Group: Global Moderators/ Team RUS Member #455 Joined: January 31, 2007 Favorite Strain ALL of The ABOVE!!!!!	Its so crazy when their heads get that big...lol...you can barely see the eyes at times!
	-Lynda ;) "Provehito in Altum" = "Launch forth into the deep" *TEAM R US* *UNITED WE STAND STRONG & TOGETHER ANYTHING IS POSSIBE*


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