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| GM-->KML,SML ? | |
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| Topic Started: May 1 2008, 07:58 PM (3,710 Views) | |
| Sonny | Jun 13 2008, 02:04 AM Post #101 |
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Great "O" Master
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sorry to keep you waiting. i'm still busy with work but i sure hope to answer your questions. here goes... Sonny, what can I say, except that this is going to be the premiere site for GM information in the known world. for the honest answers and quick responses. When you are ready, here is round 4 of questions. Knowledge is Good Intro Questions: Which Vieja was used in creating the Louhan? Sysipilum Can you talk about Mr. Yap and his place in the GM story? Mr. Yap was the partner & marketing of Lam seah GM at that time. His 2 Mal Champion was awesome! 1. PREVIOUS QUESTION: Could you please explain the foundation(F) method of breeding with examples? ANSWER: this is a simple term of the Foundation. male Fh (A) x female FH (B) = Foundation 1 (F1). female F1 x male Fh (A) = daugther x father = F2. female F2 x male Fh © = F3. In relation to the above, could you explain how this is used in breeding fish or in line breeding GM for certain traits? Why would you cross the daughter back to the father for an F2. Then the F2 female X male<---- is this an unrelated male?= F3. What is done with the F3? Wen do you get to the point where you just breed an unrelated male and female? You stated previously that Lam Seah got some Hwakok strain and used the foundation method to produce Golden Monkey fry. That i why I am curious how this method works. the breeding of Foundations is a step by step method of hoping to 'lock' in the desire traits of each fish may it be of the father or unrelated male. example: the male FH (A) may got an awesome pearls and breed with a female FH (B) with no pearls = the daughter may get 50% of the father pearls because of the dilution of the female though some may be more or lesser. simpler explanation is 100% pearls x no pearls = 50% pearls. so if this 50% (F1) were to bred back to the father of 100%, you are like adding 100% + 50% divide 2 = 75% pearls thus enhancing the higher percentage of pearls in the F2 fry. i asked you to get an unrelated male = F3 because of other traits (eg. bigger kok, body or colors) which this unrelated male may has which the male FH (A) doesn't. do make sure that this unrelated male is the same breed as the first male (A) eg. if it is a Kamfa at male (A) then it should be also a Kamfa with this unrelated male). after the F3, you have to go back to breed back to the first male FH (A) to get F4. you get to the point where you just breed an unrelated male and female is when all the desire traits were locked into each fish. of course, this will only be known by the breeder itself through the foundations and that is why most of the breeders fish does bred true but not ours where we just pick and choose any male & female without knowing what is inside their genetics....but once in a blue moon...we got lucky! 2. PREVIOUS QUESTION: Can you explain how Lam Soon fits into the GM history picture if any ANSWER: the history was Lam Seah got some fhs which is the Hwakok strain from someone and starts breeding. he managed to breed some awesome fry and called them the Golden Monkey strain. he maybe the founder but not the creator that is why till today he is still trying to breed out his Golden Monkey but without any success. In regards to the above question, could you talk about Lam Soon please. many a times we thought....well, just get a nice male & female & starts breeding & hope to breed some nice fish but always we found out not to be so. Lam Seah made his millions duing those days but unfortunately he spent them all. frankly, in FH, the female is the most important because she is what determines what you get and not any AAAAA male as such male could be obtained easily with $$$. what Lam Seah is missing is that..he doesn't have any female Kamalau to starts his coming back. 3. PREVIOUS QUESTION: Could you post how the Hwakok strain fish like Perfect Harmony and Coronation Link progressed to todays Golden Monkey? ANSWER: i'll post this in a later post. How about now? i will post them either today or latest by monday. sorry to keep you waiting. 4. PREVIOUS QUESTION: Again, I would like to leave question 10 open for you to make an informational statement regarding GM, anything you would like. ANSWER: it been a long answers. i wish to discuss the term 'pure' GM in your next questionaire. How about now? why would the term 'pure' GM came into existence when other strains don't? as you may know, other strains like Kamfa & ZZ, their classification now is either classic (earliest type) or modern (present day). why wouldn't they were called...'pure' Kamfa & ZZ and the mixed Kamfa & ZZ of today like some people did to the GM strain? this shown clearly their misunderstanding or lack of knowledge of the GM since they are quite rare. the  part is....some people still believe until today there ain't any more of those 'pure' gm where the gm today were all mixed.5. Would you review the post by HighFive with your comments added that I posted above? Could you then summarize and explain what happened with the GM at this time and why their is constant speculation that the true GM died off. well, that part of the story was easily 5 years+ ago. if it was to be true, why would there still be a GM category at the Indo competition since 5 years ago until today? the constants speculation was either because some thought the GM really was dead with Lam seah or A1 or just plain ignorance. 6. Are their currently any living GM from these first three generation? If so, do you have any? i bet there were as fh can live to be 10 years old. yes, i do have them from Mr. Yap at that time but they passed. GM do not died after that 3 generations. we must know as previously Lam seah GM was sold to lots of people.....Mr. A, Mr. B & Mr. C. Mr. A may bred them till 3rd generations & all were dead after that and so do Mr. B Holland 23 Mr. Ah Keong KGM after the 2nd generations, the female was dead too. but let us not forget for we still got Mr. C GMs that were from lam seah too that continue to breeds till today. 7. Who is the Indonesian man who purchased the 10 GM for $100,000, and what happened to all those GM? Was it Pak Puji? And is he currently breeding GM himself? On Arofanatics.com you stated he had 4 female GM, but was trying to buy more, so does he have any female GM now and what happened to his females from before? But the best and most interesting part of the story is this, how did he get 4 female GM? you may want to ask the 10 gm & $$$ from our fellow bros here. they should know better. yes, Pak Puji was at one time breeding those females. he got the 4 female Gm of course by buying....$$$$. i'm not sure what happened next on his progress but one thing i noticed was some of the Indo breeds do have some GM traits mixed. sorry, i wouldn't want to speculate further on this man who has contributed alot to the fhs arena. 8. Does A-1 Aquarium not have any original batch GM left? It seems like they would have kept some to breed themselves. from our fellow i don't think Mr. Ah Soon (A1) got any more left when the last time i talked to him. if he got them, why wouldn't he breed as GM is always in great demand or at lest sell them off rather than keep them long & loses their productivity. 9. Who is Mr. Leow? Does he breed GM or other FHs? Mr. Leow is my GM partner. When Mr. Andy Dung aka TexasFH was here in Malaysia last year with his girlfriend, they got to know him & his friends too. Of course, he breeds anything that are sellable. 10. Since you created the SML breed by breeding with another breeder's female GMs, why have you not tried crossing a true KGM (early batch) with your GM to see what would happen? like i said at Q6 above, KGM & my GM is genetically nearer from Lam seah which you may say the 'older' GMs whereas the other breeder's female GM was the 'newer' GM of his today. and this is where the curiousity sets in. javascript:emoticon('youdaman') Thanks Sonny, Ed you are welcome. |
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| Sonny | Jun 13 2008, 02:29 AM Post #102 |
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Great "O" Master
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this is one awesome specimen!  what happened to the body?
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| Sonny | Jun 13 2008, 03:06 AM Post #103 |
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Great "O" Master
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 for sharing bro Lucky.the Flowermonk was indeed one of the earlier breed bred by none other than Mr. Cheah the founder of Kamfa. yes, those super large KKP plays an important in their body shape development as mentioned. the KKP could easily reach a round size of 12"... |
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| PiebaldMidas | Jun 16 2008, 08:37 AM Post #104 |
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1" Frys
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Non-Malaysian Based Malau Fish Their are also New Generation Malau that are mixed with ZZ blood on the market today. One example of this is the IndoMalau produced by ILC. The father of this line was a ZZMalau (pictured below), bred with a pure Malaysian female GM. The offspring are called IndoMalau by ILC and are genetically around 75% GM and 25% ZZ. IML Father   IndoMalau   Thanks, Ed |
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| PiebaldMidas | Jun 16 2008, 08:56 AM Post #105 |
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1" Frys
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JPG (Jing Ping Guo) or Golden Apple The Golden Apple was created by Ah Soon and is considered a Kamfa. He is a breeder who developed this fish to represent his ideal fish specimen. He bred the Louhan X Hwakok X GM X Kamfa to get his Golden Apple. So you can see the GM came before the Golden Apple and was used to create it. Ah Soon retired 4 years ago and sent his remaining specimens to the Philippines.   Thanks, Ed |
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| Sonny | Jun 17 2008, 10:48 PM Post #106 |
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Great "O" Master
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thank for the info. Golden Apple was indeed a great specimen. i believed Ah Soon sent the remaining specimens to Mr. Garfield of the Philipines. what a shame, both of them had long retired from flowerhorn hobby. the other guy who was very close to Ah Soon was none other than our own member here who is Mr. Castrol. i know he could probably share more of the Golden Apple than anyone. 
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| PiebaldMidas | Jun 29 2008, 05:25 AM Post #107 |
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1" Frys
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Round 5 Sonny, for the great info.You are the best. When you are ready, here are some more questions. 1. Would you please list all of the current GM breeders world wide? 2. Currently Flowerfish is selling KGM, are these pure GM, ZZ mix, and if pure GM, are they descended from original KGM line? Any input would appreciated. It is just strange seeing KGM for sale since you said the line died out, it is also strange since H23 created the breed, and he is not the one selling these. Also, is flowerfish their own breeder? Do you supply fish to them? 3. It is interesting that the original GM you sell are flowerless but the SML have flowers and plums (usually). Would the presence of plums on GM today almost automatically place them in the ZZ competition category? Do you have original GM that have flowers? If you do, could you post some pictures? This leads into an interesting point of culling, are you culling the original GM with flowers and plums? And on the flip side, do all the SML have flowers and plums for the most part? It also appears that most of the SML have the double flower row with plums. This is unusual with todays original GM? Why do you think that is, culling or born that way? Below are 2 pics that you posted before, they were placed in the ZZ category for the Indo competition. Would you please give your personal argument for placing them in the GM category and then turn around and give your personal argument for placing them in the ZZ category. Lastly, if you were the judge, what would you do?     4. It seems that the appearances are getting blurred from a stand point of GM verse some high quality ZZ and ZZMalau. Do you think GM is a dying breed from the standpoint that eventually their will be so many ZZMalau out there that look like GM? Also, since there is such a high cull rate with GM fry compared to other strains? 5. Do you think the future of GM will involve "breeding in" some characteristics from other hot strains like the pearls of the King Kamfa ( big pearls that spread as the fish grows, large water koks, etc. ) ? 6. Please discuss this fish, tell what you think it is and why.   7. Please discuss this fish, tell what you think it is and why.   8. Please discuss this fish, tell what you think it is and why.   9. Please discuss this fish, tell what you think it is and why.   10. I would like to leave the last question open for any comment or story you would like to share. Thanks, Ed Edited by Flowerhornrus, Jun 30 2008, 07:15 AM.
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| Sonny | Jun 30 2008, 03:57 AM Post #108 |
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Great "O" Master
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Hi Ed, sorry for i could only get back to you later. btw, Q6 & 7, can you repost the pix to be smaller? thanx. |
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| TEXASFH | Nov 12 2008, 09:19 AM Post #109 |
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3" Frys
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 !!Sonny, Wondering that when you offer another GB..I'm looking for an authentic GM... TexasFh |
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